11 replies to this topic

[Tim]

Chuck Doughty's eschatology is based on the theory that the "end of the age" statement in the Olivet Discourse refers to what he calls the end of the "Jewish Age," which he puts in AD 70. He then proposes a "Christian age" from Pentecost to the second coming of Christ. What is wrong with this idea?

Simple. Jesus referred to "this age" (40 years prior to AD70) and to the "age to come" in which His disciples would receive their rewards and eternal life.

Quote

Luke 18:29-30
29 So He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or parents or brothers or wife or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, 30 who shall not receive many times more in this present time, and in the age to come eternal life."
NKJV

That the "age to come" is after the second coming of Christ and the resurrection of the body at His coming is proven a couple of chapters later.

Quote

Luke 20:34-37
34 Jesus answered and said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
NKJV

Perhaps Chuck Doughty should check to see whether Christians can marry now and procreate. If so, we are still in the same "age" as Jesus was when He said this.
Furthermore, Jesus put the "harvest" and casting of the tares into the furnace of fire at "the end of this age." (prior to AD 70).

Quote

Matt 13:40-43
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of THIS age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
NKJV

If Chuck Doughty wants to maintain his "Jewish age" and "Christian age," he will have to place the resurrection of the dead and rewards of believers in AD70, as well as the harvest and casting unbelievers into the fire at the "end of this age" in AD70. He should also denounce marriage if we are now living in the "age to come." Good luck with that.

Tim

[Roger Samsel]

If Bro Doughty attempts to maintain this interpretation, then he will be logically forced into Full Preterism. By placing almost everything having to do with Christ's second coming in 70 AD, and by denying that Christ was bodily raised from the dead in a permanent state, he is nearly there already. I don't believe he realizes how close this puts him to complete Gnosticism, and therefore, to what John called the spirit of antichrist. Does he realize this is just a baby step away from apostasy?

[Joel]

He may not realize Roger.

As I noted in the thread "What is a Gnostic", Brother Doughty was extremely evasive whenever he had to supply any information regarding Gnosticism. It was to the point where Brother Warner outright challenged him to define Gnosticism. Brother Doughty's reply was way off base and managed to leave out THE central theme - namely that of physical matter being "evil".

[LoganMM]

It has already been established in another thread that Bro Doughty has little to no regard for Old Testament prophesy(him being a New Testament christian as opposed to a New Covenant christian); but if he did, he would also be saying Christs followers would-as per Isaiah's prophecy-concerning the age to come when the land will be inhabited by the Lord and His people, and there will be great peace, but even still not all will be completely willing to subject themselves to Christ and will "stir up strife" (i believe this is when Satan is let out to make war one last time). God said, through the prophet Isaiah that at that time, which is definitely part of the "age to come" that,

Quote

Isaiah 54:17
¹⁷ No weapon formed against you shall prosper,
And every tongue which rises against you in judgment
You shall condemn.
This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD,
And their righteousness is from Me,”
Says the LORD.

Are we to assume on top of the aforementioned things listed by Tim, that believers from AD70 until this day have been unassailable by force of arms and have been able to refute every argument and condemn those who are standing in judgment of them?

[Tim]

Hey Logan,

I suppose that Chuck Doughty would simply say you are just "literalizing" Isaiah's prophecy. And that isn't "spiritual." And don't forget, the Apostles blew up the prophets anyway!

Tim

[LoganMM]

I'll try my best Tim .
But facts are stubborn things, and they won't always submit to fantasy. I'll try to just focus on what type of cloud i want my pillow to be made out of, "when we all get to heaven".
-Logan

[Joel]

I like that one Logan.

What is really funny is Tim LaHaye used reasoning like that in one of his "Left Behind" books to have "tribulation saints" after a certaqin point in the Tribulation be immune to physical harm. Weirder and weirder...

[LoganMM]

I'm not sorry to say i only read the last book, and not only were they invulnerable, but didn't they also have some kind of force field around the fortress in Petra?

[Joel]

IIRC yes they did. It was unintentionally funny and really made the whole book come across like a comedy - but then that is what can happen when you embrace unbiblical theology.

[Joel]

Question: Doesn't this whole "Jewish Age" concept have a distinct whiff of Anti-Semitism to it?

[Micha6:8]

Yes it does. I see more so than ever before. Even if it's not intentional. It's also in my honest opinion the reason why Jewish leaders today are writing rediculous books like "Kosher Jesus" so they can clean up Christianity enough so Israelies can be ok with Christian support for their country. The secular & Jewish world can see how badly our Savior has been presented. I can't tell if attempts like this are going to bridge the gap or widen it. I'm afraid it will be the latter.

[Joel]

Alas a good deal of the gap is due to the behavior of "Christians". The history of the mainstream church is filled with persecutions of the Jews, and false doctrines like Amillennialism are enablers of anti-semitism in my opinion. In fact I believe it can be historically shown that Amillennialism was born in part of anti-semitism because it is VERY difficult to be anti-semitic and Premillennial.